Interview
Facing the identity cliff: An interview with cm harris
by Scott MacLean, Georgia Iris Salvaryn, & Marissa Stanko
OCTOBER 2021
Familial resistance and societal expectations can make coming to terms with one's identity an arduous journey with only two possible conclusions: leaping off the cliff of acceptance or staying far enough from the edge to avoid conflict. CM Harris explores these themes fearlessly in her most recent novel, Maiden Leap (Bedazzled Ink Publishing). She attended The School of Art Institute of Chicago and The Loft Literary Center of Minneapolis. She currently lives in Minneapolis with her wife and their twins.
In this interview with Glassworks, Harris’s candid musings reveal how her life experiences and struggles with her identity as an LGBTQ person and author have influenced her characters and their journeys throughout the tumultuous narrative of Maiden Leap.
In this interview with Glassworks, Harris’s candid musings reveal how her life experiences and struggles with her identity as an LGBTQ person and author have influenced her characters and their journeys throughout the tumultuous narrative of Maiden Leap.
Glassworks Magazine (GM): In your most recent novel, Maiden Leap, one of the main themes is identity and the different ways people hide their identities as they go through life. How did this theme develop as you began to write the novel and how did it influence the plot of Maiden Leap?
CM Harris (CMH): I’m drawn to homecoming stories, specifically about returning to the people and places we used to know and expecting them to be the same. And conversely about the people who stayed and their expectations. Of course we can’t help but change over time. We’re this odd mix of the child we were and a whole new identity; whether it evolved organically, or we simply pasted it on to protect some old wound. Both Kate and Lucy are struggling to find their authentic selves and yearn to see that reflected in the other, and that drives the plot forward. There’s something really wrenching about those lost relationships to me. I enjoy puzzling them out on the page.
GM: Maiden Leap is set in a place and a time period where same-sex marriage hasn’t been legalized yet. We’re able to see how a community reacts to LGBTQ individuals over multiple generations. What drove you to choose this setting?
CMH: I lived in Minnesota while the marriage battle was going hot and heavy. It was as divisive as the pandemic has been and yet there was still an air of civility we no longer have. There actually was a female senator representing a small river town who was at the forefront of the fight to limit marriage to a man and a woman. She got pushback within her family that made the headlines. And since I had already experienced a lot of small-town homophobia in my own youth, it was an easy storyline to build on.
CM Harris (CMH): I’m drawn to homecoming stories, specifically about returning to the people and places we used to know and expecting them to be the same. And conversely about the people who stayed and their expectations. Of course we can’t help but change over time. We’re this odd mix of the child we were and a whole new identity; whether it evolved organically, or we simply pasted it on to protect some old wound. Both Kate and Lucy are struggling to find their authentic selves and yearn to see that reflected in the other, and that drives the plot forward. There’s something really wrenching about those lost relationships to me. I enjoy puzzling them out on the page.
GM: Maiden Leap is set in a place and a time period where same-sex marriage hasn’t been legalized yet. We’re able to see how a community reacts to LGBTQ individuals over multiple generations. What drove you to choose this setting?
CMH: I lived in Minnesota while the marriage battle was going hot and heavy. It was as divisive as the pandemic has been and yet there was still an air of civility we no longer have. There actually was a female senator representing a small river town who was at the forefront of the fight to limit marriage to a man and a woman. She got pushback within her family that made the headlines. And since I had already experienced a lot of small-town homophobia in my own youth, it was an easy storyline to build on.
GM: As members of the LGBTQ community, we connected with the family strife you portrayed so eloquently in Maiden Leap. Kate’s character, in particular, teetered between her multiple “family units” and their polar beliefs. How do you think relationships shape a person’s identity—romantic, familial, and platonic?
CMH: Thank you. It’s affirming to hear that the work is speaking to readers.
From an early age we are taught that family is everything. That’s all well and good if you love and respect one another. But what if your family is broken like Lucy’s? Young Kate sees what’s at stake if she defies her own more stable family and the community at large. She sees the cost Lucy paid, and she’s not willing to pay it. And it’s hard to blame her. So yes, she made concessions as she got older. But because she is bisexual, she was able to fall in love with a man, marry him, and hide the other side of herself. Marriage to a man also allows Kate to have a close, platonic friendship with another woman (Anita) without people gossiping. When it comes to her family in general, she tries to promote equality for the LGBTQ community from her own closet. So, until Lucy comes back, she’s been doing a balancing act. Lucy shakes that tightrope.
GM: How have your life experiences influenced your work? More specifically, as an LGBTQ author, how do you relate to the struggles of sexuality that your characters experience?
CMH: I probably wouldn’t have been a novelist if my formative years had all been sunshine and lollipops. My first book (The Children of Mother Glory) was based on my upbringing in a strict church community and explores my experiences dealing with familial rejection. With Maiden Leap, I was able to zoom out a bit more with new characters and themes, but so far, my stories do seem to be an attempt to bring order to chaos, manage regret. I imagine that’s true for many writers. I guess the key is to make sure it’s relevant to a readership outside yourself. When it comes to Maiden Leap, the funny thing is I can identify with both Kate and Lucy in certain ways and not in plenty of other ways. It’s crucial that characters diverge from your own ego at some point if you’re planning on portraying more diverse voices.
CMH: Thank you. It’s affirming to hear that the work is speaking to readers.
From an early age we are taught that family is everything. That’s all well and good if you love and respect one another. But what if your family is broken like Lucy’s? Young Kate sees what’s at stake if she defies her own more stable family and the community at large. She sees the cost Lucy paid, and she’s not willing to pay it. And it’s hard to blame her. So yes, she made concessions as she got older. But because she is bisexual, she was able to fall in love with a man, marry him, and hide the other side of herself. Marriage to a man also allows Kate to have a close, platonic friendship with another woman (Anita) without people gossiping. When it comes to her family in general, she tries to promote equality for the LGBTQ community from her own closet. So, until Lucy comes back, she’s been doing a balancing act. Lucy shakes that tightrope.
GM: How have your life experiences influenced your work? More specifically, as an LGBTQ author, how do you relate to the struggles of sexuality that your characters experience?
CMH: I probably wouldn’t have been a novelist if my formative years had all been sunshine and lollipops. My first book (The Children of Mother Glory) was based on my upbringing in a strict church community and explores my experiences dealing with familial rejection. With Maiden Leap, I was able to zoom out a bit more with new characters and themes, but so far, my stories do seem to be an attempt to bring order to chaos, manage regret. I imagine that’s true for many writers. I guess the key is to make sure it’s relevant to a readership outside yourself. When it comes to Maiden Leap, the funny thing is I can identify with both Kate and Lucy in certain ways and not in plenty of other ways. It’s crucial that characters diverge from your own ego at some point if you’re planning on portraying more diverse voices.
"From an early age we are taught that family is everything. That's all well and good if you love and respect one another. But what if your family is broken like Lucy's? Young Kate sees what's at stake if she defies her own more stable family and community at large. She sees the cost Lucy paid, and she's not willing to pay it. And it's hard to blame her."
GM: Many of your characters in Maiden Leap subvert the stereotypes that other characters assign to them, particularly Kate as a monogamous stay-at-home mom and Lucy as a wild, raging lesbian. What message were you trying to pass on to your audience with this take on generalizations?
CMH: Both women play the roles that society has assigned them, until they can’t anymore. It takes a toll on them both, and it’s not until they come together again that they realize that truth. It’s not so much that they can’t live without each other in a “happily ever after” sort of way but that they can’t keep up their own personal charades any longer. And I gave marriage in general a bit of a skewering. If I’m asking an over-arching question with this book it is ‘what is the future of marriage, be it gay or straight?’
GM: Why did you choose to expand the third-person perspective you used in Maiden Leap by including chapters narrated through Kate, Lucy, and Sam? Did your own experiences as a mother influence your choice to include the perspectives of both Kate and her daughter, Sam?
CMH: Definitely. Having kids around Sam and her brother’s ages really helped with voice and perspective. I thought the story shouldn’t just be about these two women’s love affair, but the repercussions of it down through the years, how our actions radiate out for generations. A lot of my stories are that way I think. I love an excavation of the people who came before us and even how their choices affect those that come after us. Sam’s voice has a fresh outlook that facilitates a more organic connection between Kate and Lucy. However annoying it is to Sam, she sees that the adults in her life were once children like her. That’s not easy to grasp when you’re young. You think adults have all the answers, even if they’re the wrong ones. In actuality, there is a wisdom that young people bring to the table that adults often ignore.
GM: In Maiden Leap, we notice you use blog posts to convey Lucy’s struggles with herself and conflicts with other main characters. Why did you decide to use an unconventional medium, and how did it contribute to the tension in the story as Lucy’s identity as Liesl was slowly revealed?
CMH: Both women play the roles that society has assigned them, until they can’t anymore. It takes a toll on them both, and it’s not until they come together again that they realize that truth. It’s not so much that they can’t live without each other in a “happily ever after” sort of way but that they can’t keep up their own personal charades any longer. And I gave marriage in general a bit of a skewering. If I’m asking an over-arching question with this book it is ‘what is the future of marriage, be it gay or straight?’
GM: Why did you choose to expand the third-person perspective you used in Maiden Leap by including chapters narrated through Kate, Lucy, and Sam? Did your own experiences as a mother influence your choice to include the perspectives of both Kate and her daughter, Sam?
CMH: Definitely. Having kids around Sam and her brother’s ages really helped with voice and perspective. I thought the story shouldn’t just be about these two women’s love affair, but the repercussions of it down through the years, how our actions radiate out for generations. A lot of my stories are that way I think. I love an excavation of the people who came before us and even how their choices affect those that come after us. Sam’s voice has a fresh outlook that facilitates a more organic connection between Kate and Lucy. However annoying it is to Sam, she sees that the adults in her life were once children like her. That’s not easy to grasp when you’re young. You think adults have all the answers, even if they’re the wrong ones. In actuality, there is a wisdom that young people bring to the table that adults often ignore.
GM: In Maiden Leap, we notice you use blog posts to convey Lucy’s struggles with herself and conflicts with other main characters. Why did you decide to use an unconventional medium, and how did it contribute to the tension in the story as Lucy’s identity as Liesl was slowly revealed?
"Of course we can't help but change over time. We're this odd mix of the child we were and a whole new identity; whether it evolved organically, or we simply pasted it on to protect some old wound." |
CMH: She’s testing the waters, trying to drive the narrative, likely hoping to get caught at some point. Lucy is an archetypal trickster spirit whose own mischief undoes her. So the blog was a great device for masking her intentions. If we’d been directly in her head, we’d get too much of her plans, and if she didn’t have a voice at all she’d be too much of a cypher, up on a pedestal for Kate, Sam, and the reader. She would have ultimately seemed more of a villain as the plot unfolds. This way we see Lucy’s brittle nature. She’s unstable, an unreliable narrator, but deeply sympathetic—I hope.
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GM: How was Lucy’s journey away from her homophobic hometown as a member of several bands influenced by your own experiences with your band Hothouse Weeds? Did your own experiences enable you to infuse authenticity into Lucy’s experience and her use of music to escape?
CMH: I believe music, and just art in general, is the best way to make sense of an uncaring world. That part of Lucy definitely runs parallel to my experiences in the bands I was in growing up. Fortunately, Hothouse Weeds is a very low drama band. But Lucy’s character did form as a “what if I had run off to LA to search for fame” question. I recall feeling as a teen that if I could just get up on stage in front of an audience, I’d finally be loved properly. Of course, numerous biopics have taught us the folly in that, but yeah, that’s her early motivation: get out of this one-horse town that scorns me and then I’ll show them! The toxicity building up over time and how that plays out in her health was also an issue for me, so that was a catharsis to write as well.
GM: At several points in Maiden Leap, Kate forms connections through sexual experiences. Especially as the book wraps up, Kate navigates her new sexual relationships with Lucy and Erik, sparking old memories and raising questions about the future. How did you develop these into intimate bonding moments that inform character relationships and the plot?
CMH: Kate is in her late thirties, which can be an age when many women reach a crossroad and reevaluation of their sexuality. When we meet her, Kate’s sex life with Erik is somewhat like negotiation, a diplomacy. Not in a completely negative sense; I see Kate as very sex-positive and free with her body. As a wife and mother she is used to giving of herself for the good of the family and that has brought meaning to her life. Using Sam’s study with bonobos and chimpanzees I was able to show that sexuality is yet another device in our toolbox of communication and has been for eons. It’s a language Kate speaks well, and when Lucy returns, it’s one she no longer wants to limit.
GM: Sojourn Reclaimers is a religious group in Maiden Leap that purports to “help” LGBTQ people reclaim their straight sexuality through prayer, chastity, and introspection. Is it based on a real group, or stemmed from the very real experiences that LGBTQ people have with those who try to change them?
CMH: Sojourn Reclaimers is based on real organizations and the reports of their malfeasance, which occurred over decades. It was tempting to play them completely for laughs, but they codified so much harm to minors it’s criminal. While I was writing the early drafts, one of the largest organizations (Exodus International) folded after the president denounced conversion therapy. Many of the more prominent organizations have folded too, but that probably just served to drive the movement underground and make it more dangerous to vulnerable communities.
CMH: I believe music, and just art in general, is the best way to make sense of an uncaring world. That part of Lucy definitely runs parallel to my experiences in the bands I was in growing up. Fortunately, Hothouse Weeds is a very low drama band. But Lucy’s character did form as a “what if I had run off to LA to search for fame” question. I recall feeling as a teen that if I could just get up on stage in front of an audience, I’d finally be loved properly. Of course, numerous biopics have taught us the folly in that, but yeah, that’s her early motivation: get out of this one-horse town that scorns me and then I’ll show them! The toxicity building up over time and how that plays out in her health was also an issue for me, so that was a catharsis to write as well.
GM: At several points in Maiden Leap, Kate forms connections through sexual experiences. Especially as the book wraps up, Kate navigates her new sexual relationships with Lucy and Erik, sparking old memories and raising questions about the future. How did you develop these into intimate bonding moments that inform character relationships and the plot?
CMH: Kate is in her late thirties, which can be an age when many women reach a crossroad and reevaluation of their sexuality. When we meet her, Kate’s sex life with Erik is somewhat like negotiation, a diplomacy. Not in a completely negative sense; I see Kate as very sex-positive and free with her body. As a wife and mother she is used to giving of herself for the good of the family and that has brought meaning to her life. Using Sam’s study with bonobos and chimpanzees I was able to show that sexuality is yet another device in our toolbox of communication and has been for eons. It’s a language Kate speaks well, and when Lucy returns, it’s one she no longer wants to limit.
GM: Sojourn Reclaimers is a religious group in Maiden Leap that purports to “help” LGBTQ people reclaim their straight sexuality through prayer, chastity, and introspection. Is it based on a real group, or stemmed from the very real experiences that LGBTQ people have with those who try to change them?
CMH: Sojourn Reclaimers is based on real organizations and the reports of their malfeasance, which occurred over decades. It was tempting to play them completely for laughs, but they codified so much harm to minors it’s criminal. While I was writing the early drafts, one of the largest organizations (Exodus International) folded after the president denounced conversion therapy. Many of the more prominent organizations have folded too, but that probably just served to drive the movement underground and make it more dangerous to vulnerable communities.
"But ultimately you gotta mine your life for what connects you to others. And when I finally put down that manuscript to look at what was authentic about my life and the humble lives around me, my storytelling abilities took off. I could invent, come up with wild ideas again, but this time they were rooted in truth."
GM: We interpreted the Maiden Leap cliff to be a metaphor for sexuality, almost as if approaching it can lead to freedom or destruction. Each of the characters who have an encounter with the cliff face a near-death experience or life-changing event. What led you to choose a cliff as the main symbol in the book?
CMH: That interpretation is very apropos. I like a bit of magical realism in my stories. And I guess I really adore river towns. Because of their topography, they are difficult to over-develop, so they retain a really unique, vintage quality. The bluffs around the St. Croix are gorgeous—and ominous. I modeled Wicasa Bluffs off the town of Stillwater, Minnesota and then grabbed this massive bluff named Maiden Rock from about 50 miles south of that and melded them together. But yeah, I wanted Kate to have to live in the shadow of the choices that she and Lucy made. One of them “leapt” while the other stayed on solid ground.
GM: In your article “How Writing is Like Being Queer,” you discuss how your journey to become the writer you are today began with “writing to vent,” then “writing to be heard” and finally “writing what you know.” How do you think your writer’s journey has influenced your novels? What advice do you have for writers who are going through that journey and are trying to discover themselves as people as well as writers?
CMH: Oh, it’s all journey. I’m still growing as a writer. It’s rare that you come out fully formed and ready to publish a story or book. When I was a teen, I wrote an incoherent novel populated with only gay men that had nothing to do with my own experience. In real life, I would endure some traumatic event and then immediately turn to working on that novel to find my happy place. Then, one day my parents found the manuscript and destroyed it (hence my Twitter handle: @flammablewords). They told me, ‘you’ve got talent, but you have no business writing this.’ They were right in one small way. Not about taboo subject matter, but that I needed to write what was true. Still, I kept on. I stubbornly rewrote that nonsensical manuscript, because it helped me leave a home that didn’t accept me as a queer kid; it gave me a north star. I wasn’t ready to write about my own life yet because that was too close, too fresh, too painful. And it’s okay to wander those woods, finding your voice, indulging yourself with over-the-top ideas if that’s what you need to survive. But ultimately you gotta mine your life for what connects you to others. And when I finally did put down that manuscript to look at what was authentic about my life and the humble lives around me, my storytelling abilities took off. I could invent, come up with wild ideas again, but this time they were rooted in truth.
CMH: That interpretation is very apropos. I like a bit of magical realism in my stories. And I guess I really adore river towns. Because of their topography, they are difficult to over-develop, so they retain a really unique, vintage quality. The bluffs around the St. Croix are gorgeous—and ominous. I modeled Wicasa Bluffs off the town of Stillwater, Minnesota and then grabbed this massive bluff named Maiden Rock from about 50 miles south of that and melded them together. But yeah, I wanted Kate to have to live in the shadow of the choices that she and Lucy made. One of them “leapt” while the other stayed on solid ground.
GM: In your article “How Writing is Like Being Queer,” you discuss how your journey to become the writer you are today began with “writing to vent,” then “writing to be heard” and finally “writing what you know.” How do you think your writer’s journey has influenced your novels? What advice do you have for writers who are going through that journey and are trying to discover themselves as people as well as writers?
CMH: Oh, it’s all journey. I’m still growing as a writer. It’s rare that you come out fully formed and ready to publish a story or book. When I was a teen, I wrote an incoherent novel populated with only gay men that had nothing to do with my own experience. In real life, I would endure some traumatic event and then immediately turn to working on that novel to find my happy place. Then, one day my parents found the manuscript and destroyed it (hence my Twitter handle: @flammablewords). They told me, ‘you’ve got talent, but you have no business writing this.’ They were right in one small way. Not about taboo subject matter, but that I needed to write what was true. Still, I kept on. I stubbornly rewrote that nonsensical manuscript, because it helped me leave a home that didn’t accept me as a queer kid; it gave me a north star. I wasn’t ready to write about my own life yet because that was too close, too fresh, too painful. And it’s okay to wander those woods, finding your voice, indulging yourself with over-the-top ideas if that’s what you need to survive. But ultimately you gotta mine your life for what connects you to others. And when I finally did put down that manuscript to look at what was authentic about my life and the humble lives around me, my storytelling abilities took off. I could invent, come up with wild ideas again, but this time they were rooted in truth.
Read Associate Editor Marissa Stanko's review of Maiden Leap
Follow CM Harris on Twitter: @flammablewords
Find out more about CM Harris on her website: authorcmharris.com
Follow CM Harris on Twitter: @flammablewords
Find out more about CM Harris on her website: authorcmharris.com
