Interview
Parenting, Humor, and Digital Worlds: An Interview with Yuvi Zalkow
bY Billy Appelbaum, Daria Husni, & Emily Nolan
october 2022
Yuvi Zalkow, a human with many varying projects and talents, is a writer, app developer, podcaster and YouTuber. His first novel, A Brilliant Novel in the Works, received great praise from critics, and was chosen as a Rumpus Book Club pick. In addition to writing novels, Yuvi also has a plethora of award-winning short stories, dealing with topics such as parenthood, mental health, and the hilarious mishaps that come along with general humanism. His second novel, I Only Cry With Emoticons, focuses on how disconnected we are from one another in today’s society in spite of having so many new ways to connect and communicate through social media and the evolving online space. What sets Yuvi apart is his capability to write with honest humor, a distinctive narrative voice, and tangible emotion, all in one piece! Our interview addresses the themes, characters, and processes that Yuvi underwent in creating I Only Cry With Emoticons.
Glassworks Magazine (GM): Your second novel, I Only Cry With Emoticons, explores themes of social media, isolation, human connection, and self-sabotage through the often witty and candid lens of its main character, Saul. We saw in your YouTube video, “Writing a Novel When You’re Too Busy to Write a Novel”, that this evolved from a previous short story. How did you discover this idea and what was it about this particular short story that inspired you to expand it into a novel?
Yuvi Zalkow (YZ): Before starting this story, I was struggling with a difficult-to-write piece of historical fiction. At the same time, I was fascinated and horrified by how complicated it was to connect with people even when we have on our devices all these apps that are supposedly meant to help us. So, as a break from my difficult story, I just wrote a silly short story about a dude fumbling through his life and being lost about human connections, both online and off. At first, I thought it was just a story for my own sanity. But the thing had some real energy to it. My friends enjoyed reading it. And I was excited enough about the story that I sent it to my agent and told her that I was going to try and get it published. She gave me two pieces of feedback: She said, “It sounds like you’re having a blast writing this story.” And she also thought it would be a great novel.
I was not excited about this second bit of feedback because I was treating the story more like a fling than a long-term relationship. But from the moment she gave me this feedback, I started writing the potential novel in my head.
Yuvi Zalkow (YZ): Before starting this story, I was struggling with a difficult-to-write piece of historical fiction. At the same time, I was fascinated and horrified by how complicated it was to connect with people even when we have on our devices all these apps that are supposedly meant to help us. So, as a break from my difficult story, I just wrote a silly short story about a dude fumbling through his life and being lost about human connections, both online and off. At first, I thought it was just a story for my own sanity. But the thing had some real energy to it. My friends enjoyed reading it. And I was excited enough about the story that I sent it to my agent and told her that I was going to try and get it published. She gave me two pieces of feedback: She said, “It sounds like you’re having a blast writing this story.” And she also thought it would be a great novel.
I was not excited about this second bit of feedback because I was treating the story more like a fling than a long-term relationship. But from the moment she gave me this feedback, I started writing the potential novel in my head.
GM: In addition to writing novels, you produce content in varying mediums including a website, YouTube channel, short stories, podcast, and an app. How do you decide which medium to utilize for each project and how do you manage working on many things simultaneously?
YZ: One way I manage it is by being VERY SLOW at EVERYTHING. 😜
I know this won’t apply to everyone reading this, but I don’t think of myself as a writer, or an author, or whatever you want to call it… It’s more like I want to express myself, and I want to connect with people, and I want to do this creatively… Sometimes I’ll try to do that with writing, sometimes it’s a YouTube video, sometimes it’s an app. Sometimes it doesn’t work so well in one venue and so I try another one. For instance, my video about my chronic migraines first started out as an essay, but I realized that I wanted to show visuals (even with my poor drawing skills) and I wanted to tell the story with my actual voice. Sometimes an essay transforms into fiction, or vice versa. And even when I find the right medium or genre, I’ll occasionally give myself additional rules and boundaries, just to see if I like the effect. For instance, one animated video I made exclusively with text characters on a screen. I’m not saying this is an efficient approach (I’m constantly fumbling around with tools that I barely know how to use), and I sometimes worry that I’m not allowing myself to be really great at any one thing, but I find it really fun and freeing not to be locked into one way to do a thing.
GM: You seem to incorporate comedy as a way to provide explanations for complicated and messy ideas or issues. It is clear you have a prominent and unique comedic voice. How would you describe your style of comedy and how have you worked to develop your humor into your writing, and media?
YZ: One way I manage it is by being VERY SLOW at EVERYTHING. 😜
I know this won’t apply to everyone reading this, but I don’t think of myself as a writer, or an author, or whatever you want to call it… It’s more like I want to express myself, and I want to connect with people, and I want to do this creatively… Sometimes I’ll try to do that with writing, sometimes it’s a YouTube video, sometimes it’s an app. Sometimes it doesn’t work so well in one venue and so I try another one. For instance, my video about my chronic migraines first started out as an essay, but I realized that I wanted to show visuals (even with my poor drawing skills) and I wanted to tell the story with my actual voice. Sometimes an essay transforms into fiction, or vice versa. And even when I find the right medium or genre, I’ll occasionally give myself additional rules and boundaries, just to see if I like the effect. For instance, one animated video I made exclusively with text characters on a screen. I’m not saying this is an efficient approach (I’m constantly fumbling around with tools that I barely know how to use), and I sometimes worry that I’m not allowing myself to be really great at any one thing, but I find it really fun and freeing not to be locked into one way to do a thing.
GM: You seem to incorporate comedy as a way to provide explanations for complicated and messy ideas or issues. It is clear you have a prominent and unique comedic voice. How would you describe your style of comedy and how have you worked to develop your humor into your writing, and media?
"Not only was this therapeutic to see the humor in stuff that was hard for me to deal with, but I also started to learn how to blend emotionally fragile things with humor." |
YZ: I didn’t know I could write humor when I first started writing. I just wanted to talk about my depression and anxiety and shame. I remember sitting at a writing table and reading my story and being so surprised when people started laughing at certain parts. I can’t remember the specifics, probably it was about some lonely guy (basically: me) stuck in his bedroom and feeling ashamed about having said something awkward. The other writers at the table all started laughing at this guy! Someone said something like, “This person is really messed up!” And it was ME! Not only was this therapeutic to see the humor in stuff that was hard for me to deal with, but I also started to learn how to blend emotionally fragile things with humor. From that point on, I just kept trying to find the right balance of humor in my writing. At the start of a story, the character (or the narrator) might use humor to deflect from an emotional truth, but then, as the story progresses, the humor is used to help the character grow.
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I still find it difficult to nail down the right amount of humor so that I can get to something emotionally powerful. Being able to read a draft of my writing to others is essential for me to know how to find the right balance and style of humor.
GW: We noticed that your main character, Saul, seems to mirror your personal experiences. We found in an interview for A Brilliant Novel in the Works that you described “writing on your iPhone in the bathroom of your day job” when you are struck with creativity, Saul has a similar scene in I Only Cry with Emoticons. Do you often pull from your own life when writing fiction?
YZ: Yeah, I can’t lie to you. Almost all of my writing is lost between the world of fiction and reality. I love to walk this line. I also have to admit that I do a lot of writing from the bathroom, which I’m sure all your readers are thrilled to hear about. But, yeah, I think quite a bit of my fiction starts out in this almost-memoir state. This is my cheating technique to make sure I feel emotionally connected to the story and to the characters. The stories often veer pretty far away from my real life across several drafts, but there’s typically an emotional truth that relates to me and my life (and occasionally to the fact that I do some of my writing from the bathroom).
GM: We noticed you have a unique narrative voice. It incorporates an interesting stream-of-consciousness aspect that feels very natural to how people think and process information. What drove you to utilize this technique in your writing and how have you worked to develop this style over time?
GW: We noticed that your main character, Saul, seems to mirror your personal experiences. We found in an interview for A Brilliant Novel in the Works that you described “writing on your iPhone in the bathroom of your day job” when you are struck with creativity, Saul has a similar scene in I Only Cry with Emoticons. Do you often pull from your own life when writing fiction?
YZ: Yeah, I can’t lie to you. Almost all of my writing is lost between the world of fiction and reality. I love to walk this line. I also have to admit that I do a lot of writing from the bathroom, which I’m sure all your readers are thrilled to hear about. But, yeah, I think quite a bit of my fiction starts out in this almost-memoir state. This is my cheating technique to make sure I feel emotionally connected to the story and to the characters. The stories often veer pretty far away from my real life across several drafts, but there’s typically an emotional truth that relates to me and my life (and occasionally to the fact that I do some of my writing from the bathroom).
GM: We noticed you have a unique narrative voice. It incorporates an interesting stream-of-consciousness aspect that feels very natural to how people think and process information. What drove you to utilize this technique in your writing and how have you worked to develop this style over time?
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YZ: My writing first started out as a really raw stream of consciousness. It was pretty much unreadable at first. 😜 But I spent many years trying to learn how to infuse that style into a decent, coherent, comprehensible story. For me, a story always starts with the voice of the storyteller. The next challenge is then to see if I have a story on my hands, or if it’s just some noise in my head. If it’s a story, then I work on shaping it so that the voice can propel the story forward. Maybe it’s a shortcoming of mine, but I can’t write a story without nailing down the voice first (even if it needs to shift slightly across subsequent drafts).
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"For me, a story always starts with the voice of the storyteller. The next challenge is then to see if I have a story on my hands, or if it’s just some noise in my head. If it’s a story, then I work on shaping it so that the voice can propel the story forward." |
GM: One of the biggest forces at play in I Only Cry with Emoticons is the internet, and the ever-changing ways we communicate, both on and offline. How has your experience as a writer changed as the online space has evolved and you ventured into not only online writing-based platforms but also media driven projects such as your YouTube channel, and app? Where do you see the “always-online” culture taking us?
YZ: I’m concerned. I mean, I love the digital world, I still love the digital world even in the 2020s, but it has been difficult to witness the damage it has done. I’ve drastically pulled back from social media over the past five years. I honestly don’t know where it goes from here. The tech companies have so much power and so much ability to manipulate our emotions. And our government doesn’t know how to manage this situation, partly because they don’t understand how it works, and partly because the current state of polarized politics rarely results in the greater good for the people that need support.
But even given that dreary assessment, with a little bit of digital literacy, it is amazing how technology can help us stay connected. Even just trying to imagine what this pandemic would’ve been like without technology… And I’m also kind of fascinated about the younger generation. I mean I don’t envy the messy world they’ve been given, but I’m also giddy about how much creativity and cleverness there is in how they use technology. I love watching young creatives on YouTube and TikTok, just to see what they’re up to.
But even given that dreary assessment, with a little bit of digital literacy, it is amazing how technology can help us stay connected. Even just trying to imagine what this pandemic would’ve been like without technology… And I’m also kind of fascinated about the younger generation. I mean I don’t envy the messy world they’ve been given, but I’m also giddy about how much creativity and cleverness there is in how they use technology. I love watching young creatives on YouTube and TikTok, just to see what they’re up to.
GM: A theme you explore in I Only Cry With Emoticons is the idea of self-sabotage, self-doubt, and the role that social media plays in it. As the online space continues to evolve, and this phenomenon worsens, how do you hope your writing impacts people experiencing this? What do you hope your writing inspires others to do in regard to their social media usage and user-authenticity? Do you think of your book as a call to action of sorts or a cautionary tale?
YZ: I wrote most of this book before the 2016 election, and things have gotten worse with regard to the toxic aspects of social media. My hope is that my story helps show a nuanced way to approach the digital world. Saul doesn’t completely check out and disappear from all his devices and communication channels, but he tries to find a healthier path through the mess of it. I don’t think it’s realistic for most people to disappear from the digital world completely, but I think it’s important to understand what you’re dealing with, and understand when you’re using it to be more connected or more creative (which is great), when you’re using it to escape (which can be fine), and when it is manipulating you and leaving you feeling awful (not fine). So I guess I’d like my book to show some of the dangers, but also show how one person might pull themselves out of the muck of it.
GM: Another theme you explore in your work is generational differences and similarities. We see Saul struggling to write his book, more specifically his child character, as he finds himself incorporating clashing traits from the childhoods of his father and his son. Do you see Saul as a reflection of society’s generational gaps, or mirroring what you see his generation embodying?
YZ: I wrote most of this book before the 2016 election, and things have gotten worse with regard to the toxic aspects of social media. My hope is that my story helps show a nuanced way to approach the digital world. Saul doesn’t completely check out and disappear from all his devices and communication channels, but he tries to find a healthier path through the mess of it. I don’t think it’s realistic for most people to disappear from the digital world completely, but I think it’s important to understand what you’re dealing with, and understand when you’re using it to be more connected or more creative (which is great), when you’re using it to escape (which can be fine), and when it is manipulating you and leaving you feeling awful (not fine). So I guess I’d like my book to show some of the dangers, but also show how one person might pull themselves out of the muck of it.
GM: Another theme you explore in your work is generational differences and similarities. We see Saul struggling to write his book, more specifically his child character, as he finds himself incorporating clashing traits from the childhoods of his father and his son. Do you see Saul as a reflection of society’s generational gaps, or mirroring what you see his generation embodying?
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YZ: I’m fascinated by the different ways that traits do or don’t get passed down from one generation to the next. And the way we can choose to embrace or reject qualities of one generation or another. I wanted to write about the way generations struggle to relate to each other, and how sometimes it is easier to relate to someone two generations away from you. I was also particularly fascinated by what it is to be a “man” in one generation vs. another. We know a lot about toxic masculinity right now. But I wanted to look at a man who wasn’t toxic, but just a little lost, and how he might find himself.
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"We know a lot about toxic masculinity right now. But I wanted to look at a man who wasn’t toxic, but just a little lost, and how he might find himself." |
GM: Parenthood is a topic you’ve explored often, both in shorter works such as “Darth Vader and the Lemon” and “His First Dress”, and in more nontraditional formats like your tweets in The Bigger Book of Parenting Tweets. Your upcoming book, I Only Cry With Emoticons touches on parenthood in a more digital world. What kind of personal experiences did you pull from to build that relationship, how has this impacted your experience with parenting?
YZ: Wow! You’ve done your homework! Parenting has been a huge part of my life over the past fifteen years. First, as a stepparent to a kid that I got to know from age seven. And then (when my stepson was twelve) raising another kid from age zero, who is now twelve years old. So, I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to do this well and not screw up too badly. And I’ve written a lot about this from personal experience. Some writing is more on the nose as far as my own personal experience, like Darth Vader and the Lemon, which is all about step-parenting, or His First Dress, which is about raising a gender-fluid child. My Emoticons novel is more fictionalized, though it does explore my real life feeling of “how the hell do I raise a kid who kinda sorta is growing up with a digital device as a third parent?”
I also wanted to explore the idea of raising a very sensitive boy, who doesn’t fit the boy stereotypes. I’m raising a trans kid, but before we were aware of the gender identity element, I was very aware that I needed to let go of any preconceptions and just listen to my kid as they figure out who they are and who they want to be. This component definitely got infused into the father/child relationship in my novel.
GM: We saw in a previous interview for A Brilliant Novel in the Works that you were denied by several literary agents for your prior book. What was your experience in publishing I Only Cry with Emoticons? What advice would you give to aspiring authors trying to publish their work?
YZ: Wow! You’ve done your homework! Parenting has been a huge part of my life over the past fifteen years. First, as a stepparent to a kid that I got to know from age seven. And then (when my stepson was twelve) raising another kid from age zero, who is now twelve years old. So, I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to do this well and not screw up too badly. And I’ve written a lot about this from personal experience. Some writing is more on the nose as far as my own personal experience, like Darth Vader and the Lemon, which is all about step-parenting, or His First Dress, which is about raising a gender-fluid child. My Emoticons novel is more fictionalized, though it does explore my real life feeling of “how the hell do I raise a kid who kinda sorta is growing up with a digital device as a third parent?”
I also wanted to explore the idea of raising a very sensitive boy, who doesn’t fit the boy stereotypes. I’m raising a trans kid, but before we were aware of the gender identity element, I was very aware that I needed to let go of any preconceptions and just listen to my kid as they figure out who they are and who they want to be. This component definitely got infused into the father/child relationship in my novel.
GM: We saw in a previous interview for A Brilliant Novel in the Works that you were denied by several literary agents for your prior book. What was your experience in publishing I Only Cry with Emoticons? What advice would you give to aspiring authors trying to publish their work?
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YZ: Funny story about that first book. For a joke, I made this fake trailer video about all the rejections it received. I did it really just for my own amusement. But then the book got picked up by a publisher and I ended up using that same trailer for the real book.
For good or for bad, I’m not a brilliant social networker and I don’t have a skillful way to use my connections to my advantage. I reside more naturally in the slush pile. Which probably isn’t the smartest approach, but I use tenacity and stubbornness to get attention for the things I really care about. My first book got a lot of rejections, and my second book got a decent number of rejections too. Both found homes with independent presses in the end. |
I’m so honored to be with Red Hen Press for I Only Cry with Emoticons. I was fortunate in that, for the second book, I had a literary agent helping me find a home for the book. But in either case, I think the moral of the story (and my advice to aspiring authors) is the same: keep at it, don’t dwell on distracting expectations of fame and fortune, but also don’t give up… write a story, send it out, write more, send more out, repeat. I try to remind myself to focus on the creative journey, rather than a false idea that this one story will somehow save me if it gets published. It’s important to enjoy the creative process even without any of the accolades. Otherwise, it’s misery and disappointment.
Read more about Zalkow’s work at his website
Read our review of I Only Cry with Emoticons by Media Editor Billy Appelbaum
Read our review of I Only Cry with Emoticons by Media Editor Billy Appelbaum
